My BF is from Korat, the third largest city in Thailand.  Obviously there are plenty of gays living there, so I asked him what the gay bar scene was like.  He said they do not have any gay clubs in Korat.  He told me there was a gay club, but it closed after a few months, because no one would go there.  He said it wasn’t because people where afraid of being exposed.  All Thais can easily spot who is gay anyway, says he.

Photo Courtesy of Gay Asian Network

So I asked how gays in Korat meet and socialize with each other.  He explained they go to mixed clubs, and it’s not a problem, because any Thai can spot who is gay and who is man (straight or passing for straight).  Then he said the reason no one liked the gay club (K69) was only the guys that were obviously gay would go there.  He explained most of these guys were interested in hooking up with a man (passing for straight), and those that are man will not go to a gay club.

I think this is an excellent example of how sexuality works in Thailand.  Those that have feminine mannerisms are gay.  The guys that can pass for straight go out of their way to maintain that public image.  People are not oblivious to what’s really going on.  It’s just that most assume the straight acting boys will eventually go on to marry and have children, which most apparently do.  As long as the boy presents himself as straight that’s what’s important.  What he does behind closed doors is not.

A reader asked an interesting question that I can answer partially, but suspect others may have additional information on the subject…

“Do Thais have bars only for themselves that are beside the regular places.  My real question is: Do Thais have drag bars for their Inner Dolly Parton? What about leather bars or S&M bars?  Do those concepts exist in gay Thailand.”

SOURCE: BearBie Bar

There is a Bear bar (BearBie Bar) upstairs and just to the right of Balcony Pub.  From what I gather it is largely frequented by Thais, but I’m sure farang are welcome.

Thais are into leather, bondage, S&M, and kink, but I’ve not heard of any leather bars.  If they exist, I’m guessing they are private, by invitation only, establishments and most likely not farang friendly.  You can certainly find these guys on Gay Romeo and other on-line hookup sites.  Best I can tell, the majority are not money boys, but don’t hold me to that.  For awhile there was a full set of leather gear on display in the window of a shop just outside Soi Twilight, but I suspect the store was targeting tourists.

While many assume that all Thais in drag are Katoey or Lady Boys, that’s not true.  There are those that do drag, but are quick to point out they are not Katoey.  The only lady boy bars I’ve ever heard of are basically GoGo bars, where the “boys” can be offed.  I don’t know of any in BKK, but have heard there are one or more bars in Pattaya.  Based on my understanding of the culture, it’s unlikely any Thai 4 Thai drag bars exist, as there would be no purpose.  I think most are looking for the more masculine male and prefer to hang out in a club that attracts those types.  A Katoey would have no interest in going to a bar filled with other lady boys, as he would be left with nothing to do but compare nails.   The only other gatherings of Katoey I’m aware of are the cabaret show clubs, where the lady boys perform on stage, mostly for straight tourists.

I tried asking the BF about Katoey only bars, but he was in a bitchy mood and could not understand my carefully crafted question.   I’m guessing it was too absurd for him to even consider what I was actually asking.  All I got from him was, “You can see Katoey at G Star and El Ninio!  Why you ask me about this?” Further exploration resulted in, “OK I am stupid.  Finish talk about this!”  So, no help from the BF on the subject…sigh.

For what its worth, I have noticed one farang that frequents the Hot Male GoGo bar in BKK Soi Twilight, always wearing heels, a skimpy negligee, and blond wig.  Not that it’s relevant, but this is probably the only opportunity I’ll have to mention it.

The KAOS parties, held every few months in BKK, hope to attract those wishing to “express” themselves in ways they might not be comfortable with at mainstream gatherings.

That’s the full extent of my knowledge on the subject.  If anyone has additional information they’d like to share, please do.

Photo Courtesy of Private Boy Movie

I’ve just completed a much over due update of the Thai English page.  Most of the additions have been covered in earlier posts, but I believe the following items are new.

My friend [pause] you - means your friend.

When asked how you want your eggs fried, there are only two answers a Thai will understand - medium or well done.  They do not understand things like over easy or sunny side up.  If you ask for medium, the eggs will be served either sunny side up or over easy, depending on who is cooking.

The boys do not understand porn, pornography, or adult entertainment.  The only thing they will understand, that even comes close, is “sex DVD”.

KY = the only word used for lube

VISIT THAI ENGLISH PAGE

This is something I’ve gotten a lot better at, but there’s plenty of room for improvement.  It is an inherent trait with many westerners, and something we all should work very hard at curbing.

Photo Courtesy of Gay Asian Network

When a boy does something you perceive was wrong, even a waiter in a restaurant or bar, just tell him one time.  Be direct and to the point, but careful to avoid suggesting he was bad or stupid.  Then drop it!

The fact that he does not respond in a way that satisfies your needs most likely has nothing to do with his failure to understand your concern or complaint.  To continue harping on it will only cause you to loose self respect (face), in the eyes of the boy, and others observing. NOT a good thing!  Perhaps he knows you are wrong, but the polite thing to do is say nothing.   Maybe he was wrong, but if you voiced your concern correctly no response from him is required.  And if you did not voice your concern properly, the boy probably doesn’t know how to respond.  Even if a response is within him, he may not have the English skills to articulate it, so nothing said is better.  Do not expect any form of apology from the boy, as this is not customary behavior.  Again, if voiced correctly, no apology is necessary and you should not be looking for one.

One evening a boy was pouring my drinks too heavy, something a lot of the waiters do.  I had told him in the past to not do this, but once again he had forgotten or ignored my previous requests.  So I said to him, “OH! I think you want me mao (drunk) so fast.  If I get mao too much maybe I can not have sex tonight.”  I followed this with a big smile.  He smiled back and poured my drinks correctly for the remainder of the evening.  I could have gone off on him about how many times I’ve asked in the past he not pour heavy, but for what?  In the eyes of Thais, it would only have made me look like an ass.

On one occasion I asked a boy working in Banana Bar to go and get me some pork balls.  He came back with fish balls.  I hate fish balls.  So I asked why he did not get me pork balls.  He said, “Finish.”  I said with a smile, “OH!..thank you.”  To him, or any Thai, eating is more important, so to come back empty handed would have been “more bad”.  The vendor was out of pork balls, so he got me fish balls instead.  Thais love fish balls, so no harm done, in his mind. To have criticized him for this would have been inappropriate.  Besides, it wasn’t lost on him I only ate a few of the fish balls.  Actions speak louder than words sometimes, and no one gets insulted.  Later he brought me some grilled chicken, paid for out of his own pocket.

At one time there was a boy hanging out with me that worked in an office job, but didn’t make a lot of money.  Even so, he had a soft heart and would give money to anyone he felt was in need.  I started noticing one of the door men in Soi Twilight was hitting him up for 100 baht every time we went drinking together.  So one night, when I was alone, the door man sat next to me for a visit.  I said to him, “My friend not make good money and it always finish long time before he get more.”  Then I said, “My friend have good heart and like to help people that need money, but he really not have money to give.”  Then I looked him straight in the eye and asked, “Do you understand what I say to you?”  The boy said yes, and I never brought it up again.  I was also careful to have the talk with him when no one else could overhear it.  And you will notice I did not accuse the door man of doing any wrong.  He never asked my friend for money again.

If you don’t get an immediate answer to the situation, just file it away, and let it go.  Chances are you will discover why things happened the way they did sometime down the road a bit.  As with the pork balls example, what one perceives to be wrong may actually be right, if you have benefit of the Thai cultural big picture.  Don’t be so quick to assume things.  And right or wrong, harping on it only makes you look bad.  In our culture it’s a way to find closure.  In Thai culture it is exceptionally rude and disrespectful.

I want to call your attention to a blog I just discovered.  If you don’t know about it already, I highly recommend giving it a read.  I’ve not read all his posts yet, but can already see from those I have that this is a kind hearted gentleman with a good understanding of how to interact with the boys.  He is firm but fair, and does not spoil them.  For this he is both respected and adored.

I particularly like the story he tells about borrowing 500 baht from a farang when he came up short for the evening.  The boys he was with found out about it and were insulted he had not thought to ask them.  Stories like this are priceless.

Doug is the kind of guy that brings out the best in the boys, and for it he is greatly rewarded.

A reader left this comment…

Have you had much interaction with your boyfriend’s family? My bf lives in the rural areas and there are financial expectations placed upon me which have put some pressure on the relationship. The farang seems to be expected to pay for everything for any outings and it has been suggested a monthly allowance would be appropriate. This part of Thai/farang partnerships may make an interesting entry for your blog. I am generous but caution is required in this matter.

I have met one member of the family, his sister, and will be meeting the rest at some point in the future.  Up until a couple of days ago I thought he had an older brother and sister.  As it turns out, the older brother is actually a cousin…one of those little English translation miscommunications that occur so often.  Of even greater surprise was to learn he has a younger brother, who is Katoey.  I’m not sure why that little detail managed to go unmentioned until now, but I thought it interesting there are two gay boys in the family.  When I mentioned this, he said it’s actually quite common.

In most farang/Thai relationships, the expectation of financial support for the boy’s family is usually part of the package.  Unlike the second and current BF, my first was like that.  The current BF has a good paying job, and his family already does well, but if they needed any help, it would come out of his earnings, not mine.

In my opinion, you have been advised correctly.  The best way to manage financial support for the family is to put the boy on an allowance, and tell him he can do with it as he pleases, but no additional money will come from you in support of his family.  The boy will most likely give at least 80 percent of that money to his family…Mom.  The challenge is in managing other requests for money that are for his needs and wants. You have to make it clear to him that his allowance is intended to cover wants, and you will only take care of needs.  The boy may “want” a 3000 baht shirt, but he only “needs” one that costs 300.  You really need to stand your ground on this or things will quickly get out of control.

Of course, the farang is expected to pay for all costs associated with any outings.  The thing to be careful of is friends being invited along.  Similar to an allowance, the way to manage situations where the BF has managed to get several friends along for the ride is to give him money to pay for everything…the same amount you planned to spend if it were just you and the BF.  You will be amazed at how well that boy can make the money last.  He may have to tap his own allowance money to avoid being embarrassed, but he’ll think twice about pulling that sort of thing on you again.

With regard to meeting the family, if you go to visit them, or they come to visit you, the family will presume you are paying for things.  If visiting them, a big party will almost certainly be thrown, and they will expect you to pay for it.  Once again, put the boy on a budget and let him manage things.  I can’t explain why exactly, but by placing the financial management responsibility on the boy’s shoulders it changes the rules slightly, and avoids embarrassment for all parties involved.  Give the boy an amount you are willing to spend, and let him deal with all the cultural nuances.  Things like this are best left in the hands of the experts, and by doing so you will save yourself a lot of money and grief.

Photo Courtesy of Private Boy Movie

I’ve just added a new page that talks about the various products and methods I’ve discovered to combat mold infestation.  Not just in the toilet area.  This page is mostly about preventing mold on leather, cloth and canvas items, such as hand bags and luggage.

A friend just informed me that all off fees in the Soi Twilight Go Go bars have gone up to 400 baht.  It’s a classic example of Thais not understanding the concept of buyer’s and seller’s markets.  Their attitude is when the customers are scarce, just make the ones here pay more.

Photo Courtesy of Private Boy Movie

I’ve also heard rumors there is a move to get the standard short-time minim tip for the boy raised to 1500.  Some speculate the mamasan gets a cut of the boys tip, something I know already goes on with any new boy in a bar.   Some bars do this for the first 30-90 days, and other places take a cut of the new boy’s tip for X number of offs.

I used to negotiate down the 500 off fee at the Hot Male annex host bar, but then realized the boy probably has to make it up out of his tip.

It’s sad for the boys, as they are the only ones loosing in all of this.  Lately I’ve gotten in the habit of having boys, I already know, over in the afternoon, before they go to work.  I prefer having a boy at that time of the day anyway, plus it ensures they keep everything I’ve paid them, without any worries about getting in trouble with their mamasan.

Don’t believe what you hear in the news.  Everything is fine here.  Some think this one will be more intense than in the past, but I’m not convinced of that, at this point.  I’m expecting the usual posturing, but not much more.  Regardless, farang are left out of it if they stay out of it.  Current expectations are the airports will be left alone this time.

A while back I got into a conversation with the BF about why he decided to enter into a relationship with me.  It wasn’t anything serious, just a casual question for my own curiosity.  He’s not a kept boy, so I was wondering what the determining factors were, beyond our being good friends prior to going forward with the relationship.

Photo Courtesy of Gay Asian Network

The first thing he said was, “For what?”  Then he expanded on that by saying, “For what I want BF if not good for my life.”  I can’t remember exactly how he said it, but to paraphrase he went on to explain it isn’t in his best interest to have a BF if doing so only added responsibilities to his life without something of benefit in return.  Because my previous relationships were with money boys, I took his comments to mean he decided to BF with me solely for monetary gain.  I wasn’t completely sure that’s what he was telling me, but without further discussion it seemed so.  I knew this was going to require further discussion, and I waited for opportune moments to dig a little deeper.

At the time he had two paying jobs and an internship with an advertising firm, all of which I helped him, directly or indirectly, secure.  Even so he would, and still does, occasionally ask for some money when he’s short.  The topic came up on two more occasions, and ultimately he realized that I had taken from his original comments that he was with me for the money, free room, use of computer and Internet, and so on.  He first explained that when I originally asked the question he wasn’t taking it seriously and was talking in more general terms about his attitude toward any relationship.

I then learned that what he was really trying to say is he doesn’t want a relationship with someone that brings nothing to the table but good looks and sex.  In other words, he wants a relationship that is a partnership in life.  One that helps him achieve his life goals better than if he were doing it on his own.  And by implication, he would in turn reciprocate in ways that would benefit his partner’s life.

When I first met him, he had just completed his university studies and moved to Bangkok to try and launch his career.  I let him stay in my room, and gave him guidance on creating a resume and how to conduct a job search…two things his university had failed to do.  I and a friend also purchased suitable cloths and accessories for his job interviews.  All of this led to the two jobs and internship he had when we decided to enter into a relationship.  It was those things I did for him then, and continue to do now, that were the deciding points for entering into a relationship with me.  He has no interest in being supported financially by me, and is reluctant to ask for assistance when it is needed.

With this cleared up, I decided to ask the BF a more generalized question about Thai relationships.  I staged the question by presenting the following scenario. What would happen if a boy has two guys he is thinking about entering into a relationship with?  One is very good looking, but brings nothing else to the table.  The other is not overly attractive, but will be of benefit from the standpoint of achieving goals and living a better life. Who would the boy most likely choose?  Without thinking, he said the later would be the selection of any Thai.

I was already aware of this cold hearted, pragmatic, friendship approach to so called love with Thais, but it’s the first time I’d actually heard it said by a Thai.  A farang friend of mine, who has been in a relationship with a younger Thai boy for 8 years, tells me the true love we westerners are looking for comes much later in the relationship.  And there are a lot of obstacles to navigate before it reaches that point.