Money Boys
June 10th, 2008For those that don’t know already, money boys are guys that will have sex with you for money - prostitutes. Trying to write about them is more easily said than done. This is my second attempt at it, but I’m not ready to say it gives the subject complete justice.
What makes this so difficult to cover is you can’t put things in nice neat little boxes. Money boys are people, each an individual with his own unique motivations, personality, and life experiences.
For most, the sex trade is an easy way for an unskilled poor boy to make good money, much of which goes to support his family. Others see it as the only way to fund a college education. A small percentage turn money boy, because they truly enjoy having a lot of sex, and reason they might as well get paid for it. Unfortunately some boys, at a very young age, are actually sold into the sex trade by their family. These boys know nothing else.
Some of the boys like what they do, while a large percentage do not. For many, it is so tormenting they turn to drugs, alcohol and gambling. All too often these boys do nothing to secure a future, and suddenly find themselves getting too old with nothing to fall back on. Not surprisingly, this results in desperation. The boy knows his days are numbered, and he needs to find someone to take care of him, before it’s too late.
So keep in mind, as you read on, this is a broad overview, subject to an endless combination of complex social, psychological and economic variables.
THE ENVIRONMENT
For the most part, money boys can be found working in 5 uniquely different environments; GoGo bars, two distinctly different types of host bars, sex massage, and freelance. Some prefer working in only one environment, while others will bounce around from one to the next. Many will even work in two or three at the same time.
GoGo and host bars have a mamasan. He is the overall manager of the establishment, and probably not the owner. Depending on the size of the bar, a mamasan will have one or more captains working for him. Captains perform much the same duties as the mamasan, as it relates to servicing the customers, and can be thought of as assistant managers. Under the captains are wait and door staff. For the sake of simplicity, any time I say mamasan, as it relates to interacting with customers, it could also mean captain.
GOGO BOYS
The typical GoGo bar has boys in white underwear parading on stage for customers that are usually seated bleacher style. Each boy is assigned a number, displayed on a badge pinned to their shorts. The wearing of numbers is a cultural thing. It is impolite to point, so customers are expected to ask for the boy by number.
A customer can ask for one or more of the boys to come sit with him. Many of the boys do not speak good English, so the mamasan has taught them a script - hello, what is your name, where are you from, and so on. The mamasan is happy to assist with any additional conversation, or answer any question you have about the boy. Always keep in mind the mamasan’s job is to make money, so you are going to be told what you want to hear.
If you ask a boy to sit with you, and you do not off him from the bar, he should get a tip of between 50 and 100 baht, depending on how long he is at your table. The boy also gets a commission for every drink you buy him…usually 50 baht.
The mamasan makes money on every drink sold, so he will ask you to buy him, the boy, and his captains drinks. You can go through a lot of money, in a very short period of time, if you’re not careful.
In some of the seedier bars, customers are encouraged to grope the boys, and the boys might reciprocate. You can probably get away with it in any darkly lit bar, but realize the boy probably does not like it. The same goes for kissing. Several bars in Silom Soi 6 “allow” the boys to give customers blowjobs. If you decide to participate, guard your money. Putting it inside a zippered pocket is not secure! Also keep in mind that any activity beyond talking to the boy demands a much larger tip.
If you decide to take a boy home, both the bar and boy get paid. The bar gets what’s called an off fee. The fee is generally thought to be fixed and ranges between 300 and 500 baht, but during low season 500 can often be negotiated down to 400. The fee to the boy can be negotiated, particularly when you want him for long time. In Bangkok, the standard rate for short time is 1000 baht, and 1500 or more for long-time. In Pattaya (Sunni Plaza) it’s 500 for short time and 1000 or more for long-time, and Boys Town is the same as Bangkok. I’m not sure what the prices are in Jomtien Complex and with freelancers. The bar is paid before you leave with the boy, and he gets his money after services are rendered…just before he departs your room.
If you have a good relationship with a mamasan, he will usually allow you to call and request a boy come to your room. You are expected to pay the boy enough to cover his off fee and tip for the mamasan. The same is true if you decide to keep a boy an extra day.
Tipping the mamasan 100 baht is appropriate, but only if you take a boy. If he does something very special for you, a tip is also justified. Sitting in his bar, drinking, and even visiting with one or more boys, is not justification for tipping the mamasan.
Most bars supply their boys with one or two condoms. They are rarely of the best quality, and should only be used in a pinch…bring your own.
If you get a boy that’s not so good don’t assume he is to blame. Sometimes it is the bar (mamasan) that is pulling his strings, and the boy has to do what he is told.
Depending on the bar, GoGo boys get one day off a week, others make their boys work all 7 days. If a boy does not show up for work, he must pay his off fee. This is done to prevent boys from seeing outside customers during business hours.
Some bars provide a place for the boys to stay - sleep and shower. Some will feed the boys one meal a day. Some pay the boys 100 baht a day, whether a customer takes them or not. Boys that perform in the bar’s nightly shows get paid more.
In a lot of bars, the captains and wait staff are promoted from within - former GoGo boys. They are often some of the best boys in the bar. If I’m attracted to one of the captains or wait staff, I’ll definitely take him over one of the boys on stage, and I’ve never been disappointed.
Bar boys know you can complain to the mamasan if they misbehave. Complaints can get a boy in trouble or even fired, so it does tend to keep honest boys honest, and on their best behavior.
HOST BAR BOYS
There are two distinctly different types of host bars. The most prominent, throughout Thailand, are regular looking bars with some or all of their staff available to customers. There aren’t a lot of these in Bangkok. The few that farang frequent are all in Soi Twilight. When the bars are busy the boys don’t have time to sit and visit, but will make it a point to flirt a lot with anyone that shows an interest. The off fee for boys in these bars (Bangkok) is 500 baht. The managers try and justify the higher fee as necessary, because every time a customer offs a boy it depletes their wait staff. I know one of the bars has a couple of totally straight boys working, as a way to avoid loosing all her staff. I’m not 100 percent sure on this, but I believe these boys can refuse a customer. As far as I know, host bars in other locations do not have an excessive off fee, but I can not speak from experience.
The other type of host bar is similar to a GoGo bar, in that they have a pool of boys who do nothing but sit around waiting for customers. In other words, they are not part of the wait staff. The big difference between these and GoGo bars is the boys are not stripped down to their underwear and parading around on stage. Instead, they wear their street cloths and typically have a cluster of chairs to sit in that are positioned for easy viewing by the customers.
These are usually karaoke bars, with very relaxing sofas and easy chairs, giving the place a cocktail lounge atmosphere. The largest concentration of these bars is located in an area of Bangkok called Saphan Kwai. The bars cater mostly to Asian customers, but farang are genuinely welcome.
Most of the boys are college students, and few speak much English. However, all of the mamasans speak English, as do most of their captains, and even some of the wait staff. Just like the GoGo bars, you can ask the boys to come sit with you, and the off fee is 300 baht. Boys get paid 1000 for short-time and 1500 or more for long-time, but most will only go short-time on a week night, because they have school the next day.
The boys seem to have a little more flexibility with their work schedule, probably because the bars draw heavily on college students. I’ve also noticed some of boys work sex massage in the afternoon and early evening, then switch to a host bar around 9 or 10 in the evening. Of course, these boys are not college students.
A very large percentage of the boys working in Saphan Kwai host bars call themselves man man, meaning straight. In my opinion, these boys are really bisexual, because all Thai bisexuals consider themselves to be straight. Based on my research, butch gay and bi boys avoid social stigma, because they are not obvious. With that in mind, I think the man man boys are more attractive to their Asian customers who don’t want to be seen in public with a nelly queen. In any case, I’ve had quite a few of these so called straight boys and they are anything but. In fact, some of them will even bottom.
As with the GoGo bars, captains and wait staff are often some of the best boys in the bar.
The boys in Saphan Kwai are, in my opinion, uniquely different from other money boys. They have that boy next door look you don’t find with the boys accustomed to seeing farang customers. As a general rule, these are good honest boys that usually don’t play games.
While they are not in abundance, some boys do speak English good enough that you can call them and make a date. Most of the boys are more than willing to see customers outside the bar, during working hours or earlier. There is an obvious cost savings in this, but more important you can get a boy before 9 at night, sometimes as early as mid afternoon.
Unlike the GoGo bars, host bars typically do not house, feed or pay the boys.
Regardless of the type host bar you are in, groping the boys is absolutely inappropriate.
SEX MASSAGE BOYS
The sex massage places are generally your safest option, because services are provided within the facility. Any problems can be dealt with on the spot, so it’s highly unlikely a boy will go through your pockets while you are naked on the table.
A sex massage is the most expensive option. The amount you pay the facility varies from one place to the next, and also depends on what massage option you select. You can expect your cost to the facility to range between 800 and 1200 baht. The boy also gets paid, and that is usually set at a minimum of 1000 baht, with the option to pay the boy more if you are really pleased with his services.
Typically sex massage boys are good at sex or massage, but not both. Getting one that excels at both is a real treat. It is very common for these boys to require a condom during oral sex, and a lot of them will not kiss. Some of the boys will wear a towel during the massage, but you can tell him to remove it. You can also ask the boy to shower with you, if he doesn’t voluntarily.
Most facilities require their boys to be on duty from around 2 in the afternoon until 11 or 12 at night, six days a week. The V Club, up in the Ari/ Saphan Kwai area, is the only exception I’ve seen. There, the boys can apparently come and go as they please, so you see more boys during the peek hours between 5 and 8 pm.
FREELANCERS
Most boys don’t particularly like parading on stage in their underwear, often with the requirement to pop a boner for an intoxicated salivating audience to gawk at…go figure. Boys that are independent can refuse a customer, an option most employers do not give their boys. In many establishments the boys are expected to top and bottom, at the customer’s request. Most bottoms can accommodate, but it can be a big problem for the tops. A lot of mamasans instruct their boys to do things that are not in their best financial interest. These are just some of the reasons why I think a lot of boys choose to freelance. They want more control and flexibility in their life, such as being able to travel with a customer for a week, or take a day off without having to pay an off fee.
Freelancers work the bars and discos that do not manage boys. They also work the on-line hookup sites, like gay.com and gayromeo.com. A seedier and arguably high risk subset can be found working in public areas around town, such as parks, shopping centers, and public restrooms. I don’t have any experience with them, so they will only get this brief mention.
Unlike the bar boys, freelancers are often available earlier in the day. I’ve actually gotten one boy on-line to come see me at 9 in the morning. Freelancers are cheaper, because you don’t have any of the bar costs - drinks, tips and off fee.
The freelancers take two approaches with potential customers. Some are upfront about being a money boy while others are not. Those that are not will deny they are a money boy when you ask, but try to get money out of you just before leaving your room. Typically they have some sort of sob story like they’ve been locked out of their room, because they can’t pay the rent… a favorite. Another popular line is they need help with their college tuition. Most freelancers will tell you they are a college student, even if they are not. For some reason, those that are falsely claiming to be in school like to say they are studying marketing.
While some of the boys on-line will try and up their price on you, they get paid the same as bar boys. A favorite with these boys is to say they have to travel a great distance to see you and want an extra 500 baht to cover that cost. This is almost always a lie. If a boy tries this on you, politely dismiss him. Odds are pretty good he will comeback agreeing to the regular price.
There is a subset of very clever freelancers that do not ask for money upfront. Instead they spend a lot of time with you for free, the goal being to capture your heart and THEN your wallet. WARNING…these guys are very good at what they do, and age makes no difference. Some of the best at this are 19 years old. These guys know that, with patience, they can score a lot more from an unsuspecting farang. Fortunately most Thais are not forward thinking, so this type is in the minority.
A large percentage of the bar boys also freelance after their bar closes at 1 am. During low season, many bars give boys the option to leave as early as 12. Their working day typically starts at around 8pm, when they go to work in their bar, but may last as late as 8am the next day. After leaving their bar, boys will either hang out at the late night discos, or head for the Internet cafe to look for customers on-line.
TAKE YOUR BLINDERS OFF
Money boys love it when a love sick farang wants to take care of his new found sweetheart, even though he won’t be back in Thailand for another 6 to 12 months. The farang goes back to his home land and starts sending the boy money, thinking he’s made a difference. I know a lot of boys that maintain multiple bank accounts funded buy guys that want to make a difference with the special love they met in Thailand. These boys are still working in the bar, or freelancing, or both, and laughing all the way to the bank.
Even sadder are the guys that meet boys on-line and try to do the same thing. They have never even met the boy in person, but think they know him. The cyber love smitten farang will offer to send the boy money if he deletes his on-line profile and stops seeing other guys. The boy is more than happy to delete his profile, but I can assure you he’s still on-line picking up customers and looking for more suckers. The boy will put up a new profile with no photos, and announce he has a web cam. He then approaches farang and asks them to go to MSN for chat and web cam. He then waits for the farang to turn his cam on first, so he can make sure it’s not one of his existing victims.
Folks…don’t send boys money! I guarantee you are getting screwed and you’re not even in the room.
Fortunately the clever boys are in the minority. Most boys are just trying to make a living and for any number of reasons do not play these games. None the less, it is important to recognize there are some very bad boys in the mix and you need to take your blinders off.
LESSONS LEARNED
I do not recommend negotiating with a boy for long-time. Better is to take the boy short-time and leave it up to him if he wants to stay longer. The reality is he’s just going to sleep, probably right up until its time for him to leave. If the boy does actually get up early and spend time with you he’s arguably deserving of a little more cash.
If a boy gets your phone number he will most likely call you a lot hoping for repeat business. A good way to break the boys of this is tell them they get 1000 if you call and 500 if they call.
If you pay a boy with a 1000 baht bill, don’t be surprised when the young man informs you taxies can’t break a big bill and can you please give him something smaller (100 baht) for taxi. Reality is he knows how to break that big bill for a pack of gum at any 7 Eleven. He probably has no intention of taking a taxi, because a bus is cheaper. And he already has enough small change to cove either taxi or bus. If you want to avoid dealing with it, pay the boy with a 500 and 5 100’s, or you can tell him how to find the nearest 7 Eleven.
Always ask a boy you meet on-line or in a club if he is a money boy. This puts you in a better position to deal with him if he tries to get money out of you later, under the pretence he’s not a money boy.
If you like to check a boy’s ID before taking him home, and there are many who argue in favor of this, do not accept a student ID. The boys can get a fake made down on Kawsan Road for a few hundred baht. Fake government issued IDs are more expensive and usually cost prohibitive for the boys. DJ Station does not accept student IDs for this reason.
The boys are used to being asked for their ID and should have no problems with showing it to you. If a boy pushes back, or claims his is lost, it’s a BIG red flag!
If you allow smoking in your room, do not let the boy smoke in your bathroom. This usually means he’s smoking methamphetamine.
Do not take a boy out of a GoGo or host bar if he only looks at you when you look in his direction. Try to spot boys, out of the corner of your eye, that are looking at you all the time. These are the ones that have a real interest in going with you.
Some boys travel lite, so keep a bottle of baby powder and some hair gel in your room for them to use after showering.
OTHER GOOD THINGS TO KNOW
Paying a boy for sex does not mean you have license to demand of him things he does not like.
There is no school for money boys, so all start of as amateurs. The mamasan will only teach a boy the things that benefit his bar. Most boys watch what the successful boys do and try to mimic them. Of course, they don’t know what the successful boys do after leaving the bar with a customer…those things that generate repeat business and good tips. If a boy is lucky, he’ll make friends with a successful boy that offers to teach him some tricks of the trade. Otherwise it’s a matter of trial and error, something Thais do not excel at.
Money boys have an amazingly efficient communications network. Anything you say or do will be quickly communicated to any boy that has an interest in knowing about it.
CLASSIC MONEY BOY LINES
I have to leave now, because my roommate is locked out and needs my key to get in.
I have never had sex with a man before.
You are my first farang.
I have only lived here for one week.
This is my first time working in a bar and I have only been here one week.
These are all that come to mind as I’m writing this. I know there are more, so feel free to contribute.
ERR ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION
The following comes under the heading of most boys are good, but you have no way of determining that on a first date…
Do not let a boy pick the hotel.
Do not go to the boy’s room.
Don’t leave any more money in your wallet than you plan on paying the boy. Hide the rest in a place that would be difficult for him to get to while you are sleeping. Boys know to look for money tucked away in a side pocket of a wallet.
A lot of boys carry a shoulder bag or small back pack. This usually functions as a an over night kit that includes things like toothpaste and a brush, baby powder, cosmetics, hair gel, and perhaps a change of shirt and/or underwear. It can also be used to stuff your small valuables in. It is a good idea to separate the boy from his bag and pants as soon as possible and place them in a location that is inconvenient to access. Always keep one or two pair of size small boxer shorts in your room. Shortly after arriving, hand the boy a pair and look away. You won’t have to say a thing. He knows what you want him to do. DO NOT WATCH HIM CHANGE! None of this is failsafe, but you are in a much better position if the boy is stripped down to his underwear while wondering around your room.
Do not separate the boy from his cell phone! However, it is okay to tell him it has to be off or on silent during sex.
If, after getting to your room, you like to have a drink or two with the boy before getting down to business, do not leave your drink unattended. This is another good reason for getting a boy into his underwear as quickly as possible. It is extremely rare, but some very bad boys, particularly the freelancers, will slip something into their customer’s drink.
If the boy wants both of you to shower before sex, make him shower first. This gives you time to discreetly secure things in the room. A lot of boys won’t agree to it, but ideal is to shower together. Bottoms, in particular, do not like to shower with you, because they like to douche before sex, using the spray nozzle next to the toilet.
Most of us think to guard our wallet, phone and jewelry/watch, but often forget about the house keys. It is unlikely a boy will take the keys you carry, but don’t leave any spares laying around.
Never let a boy you meet on-line bring a friend. If he shows up with a friend, turn both away. Do NOT let them inside your room!
Do not accept offers for a sandwich (3-way) from boys on-line, in a bar, or club. Most Thai boys do not like 3-ways, so if it is offered be very suspicious. Odds are high you are either being tested or set up.
I prefer hotel safes that accommodate my own combination padlock. I do not consider any hotel safe secure while I am outside the room. It’s only usefulness is for securing items while a boy is in the room with me.
Most boys will not steal from you unless you make it so bloody tempting they simply can’t resist. Nearly all crimes in Thailand are crimes of opportunity. Remember the old saying…locks keep honest people honest.
IN CLOSING
I realize this page does not glamorize the money boy, and may even make him sound a little scary, but that’s not my intent. It is easy to see the fun fantasy side of the boys, but you should not loose sight of the fact there are some realities that come with it. Having a good time is great, but you need to engage without blinders on.
I’d say roughly 85-95 percent of the boys are, at some level, what I would consider to be good. By that I mean they will at least not steal from you. Beyond that, the quality of a boy depends on him, the bar he works at, and YOU.
June 10th, 2008 at 9:46 am
Hey,
a very nice overview indeed. As far as the money boy scene goes, you got it covered. Nice job.
What makes me sad, however, is that it seems you (and most other gay “farang” in Thailand) seem to only consort with money boys from bars/discos/saunas.
I don’t blame you, as I myself lived in Thailand for 14 months back in 2005-06, and though I was just 23, I mostly had “money boy friends” from DJ station and the likes.
My boyfriend during that time was also ex-moneyboy, and it is very important to consider that they are people like you and me, only probably not as educated (university-wise) as we are.
Now I am back in “farang land” doing my PhD, and met here a student from Thailand who has a scholarship from the government, being sent here by the king to complete his MSc and PhD studies and then go back to a Thai university to be a professor later.
This guy, who is now my bf, made me reconsider my views at that time in Thailand, and really opened my eyes to this whole game.
Believe, there are SO MANY Thai gay boys in that beautiful country, educated, and well-behaved people, outside of the bars. And they want to have farang boyfriends as well (just never really get them because the farangs are magically drawn to the bars and money boy discos…).
I really think that it is more rewarding in the long run to associate with people who can really talk to you about anything except “what is your name” and “my mother is in hospital”. I have lost my hopes that a money boy can live responsibly, saving money in “good times” for his later life - they don’t!! Most do drugs, and nearly all end up on the street or in their poor Isan home village, 30, ugly, non-educated.
And we all contribute to it somehow. That’s sad.
Anyway, congratulations to your well-written report.
June 10th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
Recently I contributed to a discussion on gaytingtong about room safes and for various reasons suggested the security they afforded was very low level. However, I am shocked to read “From what I understand most hotel rooms in Pattaya with a combination safe in a room share the same combination, and all the boys know it”. I am not sure whether or not you are referring to the hotels’ master combination, used by staff in an emergency. I certainly suggested on tingtong that this ‘master’ number might be known by a number of employees of the hotel, but it had not occurred to me that every hotel uses the same master number. I have been able to set my own combination number on first using the safes in all the rooms I have stayed in. I do not see how any boy could have access to my chosen number, which works for the duration of my stay - or until I change it. And it is logical to think that the safe has a facility that allows the hotel to set its own master number. It does not seem credible that every hotel would use the same number.
I think a little clarification would help.
However, overall, thank you for a very helpful survey of the topic. Some very good reminders, even for old hands!
June 10th, 2008 at 7:58 pm
Tiuri,
Thanks for the contribution. I agree with you 100 percent about the non money boys. Let me offer you some reasons why most farang do not pursue them…
Farang do not know how to meet them….both where to go and how to go about breaking the ice. Farang typically do not like to wander outside their safety zone (Silom) where everything is structured to insulate them from the REAL Thailand…a topic I’ve bee meaning to write about.
The non money boys, for the most part, are only good for a long term relationship. Casual sex is not an option. There are exceptions, particularly with the party boys that hang out at DJ. And those boys typically have no interest in anyone over the age of 40, but I’m not suggesting all non money boys have that age restriction, because they don’t.
A successful relationship with a non money boy requires a much much better understanding of Thai culture.
For the most part you are correct about the education level of money boys. I’ll grant you it is rare, but there are some well educated money boys that speak perfect English. I have met several…interestingly enough, all working in Saphan Kwai.
Papillon,
As you may have noticed I started that by saying “from what I understand.” That information comes from a VERY reliable source, and was confirmed by several others. I’ll see if I can get more details on this.
June 11th, 2008 at 9:48 am
A couple years ago I met a 23-year-old in DJ Station who had just returned from a month-long trip to Japan. Definetely not a moneyboy, I thought. He was dressed casually, rather than revealingly. He spoke perfect English, obviously the product of an expensive education. We met on the first floor in an area moneyboys just don’t hang out. He was the real deal, I was convinced.
Later, after we had left DJ, I was even more convinced of that. He was an athlete in bed and just couldn’t get enough. He was coming without any stimulation, other than me being inside him. The Japanese have a word that describes a bottom coming with “no touch.” They call it “tokoroten,” and it’s considered the holy grail of gay sex. It was just awesome sex. He was even shooting his load above his head and onto his pillow. I joked that if he were a shot-putter, he would be an Olympic gold medalist. I’d never seen anything like that. We were doing it over and over again. He was truly enjoying it more than I was.
I stayed for a week-and-a-half. He introduced me to his friends. All successful and from good families. There was a young cop, a real estate agent and a college student. All classmates from high school. Good people. Fun, too. They brought me to other bars in neighborhoods I’d never been to. We had meals together.
Chirawat, or “Dave,”, the guy I met at DJ Station, would even have me over to his apartment, where we hung out at the rooftop pool. It was an incredible vacation, the only blight being that Dave was constantly worried about his “ex,” who he had recently broken up with and who was stalking him now. One night Dave disappeared from DJ Station after telling me to wait for him in the middle of the dance floor. After 15 minutes and no sight of Dave, I said “fuck it,” and went back to my hotel. I eventually called him, and he returned to my hotel with a story about being attacked outside of DJ by his ex. He had lost a finger nail to prove it.
He never asked for money, nor did I give him any. He wasn’t a moneyboy, after all, and didn’t really seem to need any.
We kept in touch after I returned home. He was always text-messaging me, and I was constantly calling him. A few months later I decided to head back to Bangkok. I was truly infatuated with the guy. And again, we had an incredible time.
About six months later I’m back again. But this time it’s different. He’s really scared of going to DJ Station, and is constantly trying to keep me from dragging him there by pulling me into bed. My first night there he tells me some story of how as soon as I leave he’s going to check into a Buddhist wat way up in the mountains for a few months, maybe longer, maybe the rest of his life. Then the story changes and he’s going to do some volunteer work way up in the mountains for some orphanage. He’s constantly disappearing during the day and returning hours later saying he went to get his hair styled but couldn’t find a good salon so he decided not to. Things were just really weird.
When we finally said goodbye he was just balling, tears streaming down his cheeks, and he was screaming about how he felt like a loser. I figured he was referring to the fact that he didn’t have a job, nor did he ever have one since graduating from college. Then he gave me 100 baht to make sure I had enough money to pay the taxi driver.
When I get home, I immediately went online to do some banking, only to realize that the equivalent of 90,000 baht was missing from my bank account. There were ATM transactions made, in Thailand, when my ATM card was in my hotel room safe. I hadn’t even touched the card until a few days before I left. I call Dave and he doesn’t answer. I leave a message. No reply.
So, yes, these guys can be really patient. And really convincing. I call my bank. they have a word for it. Skimming. Apparently it happens all the time. Tuns out Dave is a moneyboy, a very specialized kind of moneyboy. A a skimmer.
Oh, I have since returned to Bangkok. When I went to DJ Station, I spotted Dave from the second-floor balcony. He was in almost exactly the same spot he was in when I had met him just more than a year earlier. And he was with his latest victim. A young, good-looking, well-dressed guy. But by the time I got down there, they had both disappeared.
My only revenge was to tell Dave’s friend the real estate agent what Dave really is and how he makes his money. I just hope she’s told all his other friends.
June 11th, 2008 at 11:13 am
You put the whole matter very succinctly and did a very nice job of explaining the whole situation about Thai money boys without the usual western moral hang-ups that blight these sort of pieces. My only comment is that when you say many turn to drugs, gambling etc-same same UK, USA and every other western country. In fact the youth of Thailand is coping with the current messed up planet than most of western youth who seem to be on a binge boozing bender !
June 11th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
J,
what a shocking story.
I had nearly the same thing happen to me, only that I was way more stupid than you were, and since it wa my first “real love”, it took about 6 months and ~3000 euro, nearly all my money, to finally escape that situation.
I had better experiences after that, but I strongly believe this traumatic experience won’t ever go away from my memories.
What really got me was that it all was REAL. I mean yea, my bf would sometimes disappear during the night, but so what…. he told me he was playing cards with his friends, and other stories.
Nevertheless he stayed with me for over 4 MONTHS, slept with me, ate with me, and all the rest…
And then all of that comes crushing down.
June 11th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
J,
reading over your story again -
the 90,000 Baht that he stole you will not bring him far, especially not with the lifestyle he seems to be accustomed to (pool parties? real estate agents as friends?), so I imagine things might even be worse than you thought - maybe he’s a skimmer, and that’s what he does to his average victim, but possibly he really liked you, possibly he tried to be “better” - at least at your first visits; until, for some reason, he needed to get into his “trade” again and stole your money.
That would explain his tears. Anyway, it’s so sad.
June 11th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
Hi J.
A terrible story indeed. Please explain more about how he got the money. Did he take the card out of the safe behind your back and copy it?
Did he know the code, or did he break into the safe?
thanks
Wouter
June 11th, 2008 at 7:02 pm
Tiuri-
Sorry to hear you’ve had a similar experience. You must know thsat horrible feeling in your gut that just doesn’t go away. Yes, it was traumatic. It took months before I could get a good night’s sleep again. I felt really stupid. And like I could never trust anyone again. And, unfortunately, I think I beat you in the stupid department.
To answer Wouter’s question, he got the money by me being really stupid: I was using the same digits as the code to lock my in-room safe as I was using for my ATM card’s PIN. Just because I didn’t want to have to bother with memorizing a short string of numerals. Needless to say I don’t do that anymore. As to how he got into the safe, I can only guess. Either he saw me punching the code into the safe (he did suddenly pop out of the bathroom as I was closing it that first night), or he somehow discovered the four buttons with fingerprints on them and simply started a process of trial and error until he hit upon the combination. I wake up early; he likes to sleep in. He had all day to get into the thing.
He then must have copied the card; when my bank showed me all the transactions and attempted transactions, they were all at times I know the card was either in my safe or with me. The first time he and/or his accomplices used it, it took them six tries to get the PIN correct. So they obviously were taking stabs in the dark. They probably started with my birthday and eventually worked their way down to the same code they discovered when opening the safe.
He was working with someone else. All the transactions and attempted transactions except the first were at times when we were together. And it was not the hotel staff who was doing this. We spent a couple days down in Phuket and sure enough, the transaction record shows, Dave and his accomplices also started using Phuket-area ATMs. When we returned to Bangkok two days earlier then planned, so did the ATM transactions and attempted transaction. There were 31 attempts in all; luckily they were only successful five times.
And Tiuri- I spent the first couple weeks after having discovered the theft convincing myself that it wasn’t Dave. He was just up in the mountains at the orphanage where there is no mobile phone or Internet service, I kept telling myself. He’ll call as soon as he can. Never did, never has.
And like you suggest, I’ve also tried to convince myself that those first two trips were not a mirage, that I had met someone with whom I did share some truly brilliant chemistry. And that something happened to Dave after that to make him desperate enough to steal from me. Maybe he made some mistakes and accrued some gambling debts, I would tell myself. But after I saw him in DJ on my last trip, after he disappeared as soon as he got a glimpse of me, I knew that that’s what he does for a living.
I knew then that I was the “ex” who in his stories to his current victim was stalking him and that some day the guy listening to Dave tell this story would also someday be the antagonist in the very same story but it would be being told to some other unsuspecting tourist.
You wanna know the real crazy part? Still, almost a year later, every morning when I pick up my mobile and there is no text message from Dave, I feel a little emptiness inside. I don’t understand it, but I actually miss him. And although I really want to talk to him and find out the truth, I’d never let him into my hotel room or home again.
June 11th, 2008 at 8:13 pm
As an American who will be relocating to Thailand within the next 6 months. I find this very useful information. I recently retired, and at 57 do not want to be taken to the cleaners when I first get there. Thank You so much for the information !
June 11th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
Jay,
Thanks for sharing your story. Contributions like yours and J’s are exactly what I was hoping for. I’m guessing the ex BF story was his trying to juggle between you and another guy. I would also speculate his apartment, with the roof top pool, was being paid for by one or more farang. How does he afford it when he has no job? And his “good” friends might not have been as good as they appeared. His disappearances during the day, and not wanting to go to DJ Station, probably means he was again trying to juggle between two farang at the same time. His story about going to the mountains was setting up a justification as to why you could not contact him, after discovering the missing money, and the tears was a stab at trying to hold onto you for the next time you come to BKK.
J,
Just because a boy likes sex and is good at it doesn’t mean he’s a good boy. And these boys can turn the tears on and off like a light switch. Was the boy tormented by his actions…maybe. Does it really make any difference?
I know one boy that lives in a 3 million baht condo, paid for by a farang who is rarely there. He attends university, and has numerous farang flings…some for money, and some not. He is a sex crazed animal that I’m told is incredible in bed. He is also the one that inadvertently taught me how the boys look for customers on-line while hiding from their existing victims.
Lunchtime O’Booze,
I agree with you 100 percent. My point in mentioning it is to try and bring to the surface the reality that often hides behind the fantasy. We all like to think these smiling boys are happy in life, when many are not. Interestingly enough, its not just the youth of Thailand that have a drinking problem. A large percentage of the working class Thai finish their day by getting shit faced on cheap rot gut Thai whiskey.
June 11th, 2008 at 9:03 pm
After reading J’s story I started thinking. Is there somewhere that pictures/profiles of scammers and fakes could be posted? I remember a bunch of women getting together and creating a website of guys to avoid. If there was something like this, repeat stories like J’s could be avoided and potentially, someone brought to justice.
June 12th, 2008 at 2:07 am
J,
now that you explained a bit more, it’s all clear to me. It looks like we really experienced a similar thing, and I too will never get over it.
What really hurt me that time was that my “boyfriend” was 5 years older than me and knew I was just 23 and a university student. He did it to me anyway.
I think today I know more about that kind of “Thai thinking”. They just have it engrained in their minds that farang have money and must be rich. They never think about the psychological consequences of their actions. You, they assume, will be ok, because they are always “ok”, being protected by their thai environment and their friends. However, as you and I know, that is not so.
I came to accept this part of my past as a lesson for me… what makes me worry is just that although I still love Thailand and its people (and I lived a good 7 months longer in BKK after this experience before coming back to finish my studies), I will never have quite the same perspective on “love” again.
And even if there is someone who loves me from the heart, just simply loves me with no “hidden bad part”, it’s hard to believe that, ever again.
June 12th, 2008 at 5:54 am
Thanks for your excellent blog, it is both informative and entertaining.
maybe I paid too much but when I was in Pattaya the tip for the go go boy was the same as Bangkok and he asked for 1400 baht because I had anal sex with him. I gave him the standard 1000, I had already been taken by the mamasan “buy me and the boy a drink” trick for 250 baht each, both drinks were probably coloured water.
Some of the boys in the host bars down south in Krabi will try and get you to buy everyone working in the bar a drink. This can be expensive but you will have a great party for 2500 baht. I guess I am learning with every trip.
I have met some freelancer money boys that are very nice guys. I know one in Bangkok that I have not had sex with but chat with him and his friends at DJ Station and I actually have a lot of respect for him. As always I am very careful and the advise in your blog is a reminder not to relax too much.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:45 am
1400 baht because you had anal sex…that’s a new one. I’d add it to the classic money boy line list, but this is the only time I’ve heard of it being used.
SOME CORRECTIONS
I was a bit nervous about publishing this page, because I knew I’d probably make some mistakes…and I did. Not that I don’t make mistakes in other areas, but I have very strong feelings about this particular topic and really want to get it right.
The following statement about safes in Pattaya has been removed…
“From what I understand most hotel rooms in Pattaya with a combination safe in the room share the same combination, and all the boys know what it is.”
I did some more research on this and discovered my sources had over generalized the situation. As it turns out, there were a couple of isolated incidents, in two Sunni Plaza guest houses, and both have been dealt with.
I have replaced that statement with the following personal opinion…
“I prefer hotel safes that accommodate my own combination padlock. I do not consider any hotel safe secure while I am outside the room. Its only usefulness is for securing items while a boy is in the room with me.”
I have also modified the pricing for boys in Pattaya. I forgot my preference is for the laid back open air bar atmosphere of Sunni Plaza, something a friend of mine reminded me of last knight. That and several Bangkok money boys have told me they don’t like Pattaya, because the farang will only pay 500, and I jumped to the conclusion all of Pattaya is priced the same. As it turns out, Boys Town is priced the same as BKK. I don’t know what the pricing is for Jomtien Complex, or with freelancers.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:49 am
The point about a boy wanting to leave because he didn’t want to lock out his roommate could be true afterall. Once I had a boy who stayed overnight, and upon realising that he was having their room keys, took steps to inform his roommate that he was with a customer so that the guy could come over if necessary to retrieve them. It just so happened that his friend was also busy with his client…
June 14th, 2008 at 11:18 am
I think one reason why most farang stick to the gogo bars is that they are in LoS for a very limited amount of time. If you are expat actually living there I think that is a whole other story. But those of us who are only in the country for a couple of weeks’ vacation as simple tourists will do whatever is quickest and easiest, which is to just go to Silom or Soi Twilight.
Personally I think it would be a lot of fun to meet those college boys you talk about as there would perhaps be a better chance to find some one with a similar outlook who may speak a bit more English. And while it isn’t likely that a 40 yo farang will have a whole lot in common with a Thai boy, it’s certainly more likely for me anyway with some one who has more education and doesn’t come from a very poor background. At least I know a little bit about Thai indie music which could come in handy.
I have had the “you are my first farang” line used on me.
June 26th, 2008 at 9:55 am
Gentlemen;
Thanks for all the info in the blog plus the comments. I am very sorry a few farang have been ripped off. (OK maybe more than a few) I have been there and done that but not in two bad a manner ($$$$ or STDs)….I view each experience as an exploration…taking the lesson…the not repeating the experience with another boy.
The first one was a “student” who demanded payment after he refused to do any real sex. He was just naked….At any rate I knew what I was getting into since my first Thai bf was in my hometown in the USA. His parents asked me to visit them in Thailand more than 10 years ago. On those trips he and his college friends showed me the ropes of DJ Station, Telephone Pub, Babylon Sauna.
He told me never talk to anyone who approaches me on the street no matter how cute. This would include shopping malls such as Silom Complex. (Where I still see that “student” working his Johns). When they say the go to Ramkhampaeng Univeristy as he did…this is the free school…that is the red flag…ask to see their books in their book bag…if you want to date for possible love relationship…date a Thai who has gone to private university such as Assumption U (taught in English and Catholic school), Bangkok U or Chulalongkorn (not a guarantee..but a better chance)
My first Thai bf also told me not to give out my phone number in the sauna or pub…make an appointment for later at Starbucks or the like in public. Of course they will be an hour late, but at least you are in the aircon. An older wiser farang who built his young bf’s family a house (you may do this for love one day)…told a group of us to never take a Thai boy for sex to our hotel room or condo unless we were in a love relationship. Anything less with a Thai guy was to be taken to a “short-stay” hotel. I personally have found the smaller saunas a better way…since my valuables can be locked at front desk or left behind in my hotel/condo. Sometimes it has also been better to know about how Thai people have “fans” (bf or gf)…then “gigs” or “geeks” (sort of like mistress or fuck buddy)….so sometimes when your Thai friend in keep appointments in odd fashion, he may already live with a farang…or be married to a woman..etc.
One of my buds from my hometown who has also lived in Mexico and now Pattaya taught me years ago not to put money in my wallet, and to keep taxi fare in one front pocket apart from my walking around money and bank card. That way when there is a plea for baht for the sick water buffalo, you can show you only have taxi fare and no bank card on you. He also tends to triple book his meetings due to the habits of “Thai time”….lateness beyond lateness. Somehow thought Thai guys are never late when you see them in the sauna…although how I hear Babylon is half filled with Singaporeans.
Thai boys are always losing cell phones and need replacement that cost 30,000 baht. I have a 4 year old Nokia I got at MBK for 3,000 baht.
But really in the Silom/Patpong/Saphan Kwai gay scene you are really only hitting the tip of the iceberg of Thai gay life. You can meet a nice, university educated, corporate employed Thai guy there….but my first Thai bf told me the best way is through a proper introduction via mutual friends. A trusted network if you will. Not 100 percent, but usually a lot better than the few mishaps I have had along the way in Thailand.
The words, actions, and love of Thai guys is 98% based on Buddhism. If you study Theravada Buddhism (the practice in Thailand)….it can help you sort out what is going on with these guys. Even the money boys know they will get back any bad things they do to others…whether in this life or another….their karma so to speak. But still, so many will lie using their family, friends, religious holidays and rites, etc…to get something out of you which they don’t deserve. A few detective questions will get some interesting answers and it is your responsibility to say yes or no to a need they have.
I met my current Thai bf in 2001. He is educated, professional, mature (sometimes more than me), and we have a 20 year age difference. He is from “upcountry” which is to say outside Bangkok 4 hours drive in a mid-size city. His personality is nice, sweet, happy, almost 100 percent of the time. He has been my guide not just as tourist but also when I lived in Bangkok…he lived with me. Now I commute from Singapore…to see him. I can say that I trust him 100 percent since we lived together starting about 4 years ago. But, I do recall when we first met, and those emails to me back in the USA…who the hell is this sending me all this stuff?!!!
Now, I can say that we know each other so well, that we have the same relationship issues that any other couple would have after a few years anyplace on the planet. But all of that is helped by one thing, and one thing only. Love.
I really like my journey in Thailand, and I know there is some tough stuff that happens there to you and to me…whether you are Gay or straight….Thai or farang…but, I still love Ny Luang (His Majesty the King) the Thai people, and keeping an open mind about Buddhism. And with all that I still know to be careful. Bangkok on a given day is basically the same as New York City in population. As Gordon Liddy said years ago, the world is like the Bronx at 3 am. Be careful out there.
Chok de la pop fun mai krub (Good luck and see you later),
RickBangkok
June 26th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
Thanks Rick…excellent advice.
June 27th, 2008 at 9:51 pm
Hi,
Have been reading you article about money boys and found it very interesting. Having been to Thailand, and loved it, I have come to realize it is ALL about money there. Which is fine with me, everyone has to make a living.
I was reading a homepage belonging to a Taiwanese guy and he was writing about his experience in Thailand, it is interesting getting an asians impression on the place. Anyway, he included an article he found in a magazine called ‘Spicy Rice’ in Pattaya. It is headed ;The Ten Commandments for Money Boys’. Thought your readers might be interested, so have pasted it below.
Ten commandments for money-boys by a book Spicy Rice
1. At the end of the week, specifically Friday and Saturday, many locally employed walking ATM macine will come to your bar, choose carefully! Some have moey, but others do not! If he is wearing a suit and tie, check that the tie is not a Pratuname special and check that he isn’t wearing trainers. If he is, forget him becuase he is most likely an English teacher, and they will only give you peanuts, if they give you anything at all.
2. No matter how fat and ugly he is, no matter how bad he may smell, no matter how drunk he is, make sure you always tell him he is handsome. Sit close to hi and run your hands over his body, arousing him. As soon as he has paid the bar fine, you can stand clear of him.
3.Start collecting email addreses from all of your customers, once you have a good collection of addresses, a visit to your local Internet cafe is in order. Send everyone an email, Simply change the name on each email and send it off to all the guys. If you can remember something specific about them, metion that in the email too. These walking ATMs all have a soft heart, so you need to tell them a story to get them to send you some of their riches. Start with a sick buffalo and if he doesn’t reply, next tell him that your mother is ill.
4.Practice crying on cue. It is essential that you can produce tears immediately. This will have the effect of helping the walking ATM machine to see things your way!
5.When you get a customer for an extended period of time, make sure he takes you shopping, with Rarn Tong(gold shop) being the best place to visit. Make sure he buys you gold and if he doesn’t see rule 4! As soon as he as left Thailand take the gold back to the shop and sell it straight back to them, thus increasing your paid out.
6.When locally based farangs are inside the bars, do not speak in Thai with your friends in the bar but rather use Lao, Khmer or any other dialects that you may know. It’s bad enough that some of them can speak and even read Thai, but Lao and Khmer should be kept as sacrosanct.
7.Alway see him off at the airport. Their currency cannot be used in his county, so it is highly likely that he will give you all of his leftover Baht as he leaves says goodbye. While accompanying to the airport, prevent him buying gifts for his family and friends in his homeland, this will leave more money for you.
8.See Asian customers. They understand that we like to gamble, and they understand that we have lots of unemployee brothers and sisters who need to earn. Therefore, they pay a lot better than other foriengers.
9.Remember, when you go with a farange, you must always ask for taxi money and give him the excuse that taxi drivers cannot give change on big notes. Don’t let him see the small change in your wallet. If taxi money isn’t forthcoming, see rule 4.
10.If you are no longer making money in Bankok, move down to phuket where you will be able to start making money again. Give Phuket a few years, then move on to Pattaya. Even if you are approaching 50, it is no problem as the walking ATM machine in Pattya seem to be so blind, they will not notice.
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June 27th, 2008 at 10:03 pm
Thanks Chris…I needed a good laugh today.